Bridgerton, Testosterone & Libido
Transcript -Automatically Generated
So, Diane, I know you're not a Bridgerton fan, but I am, I'm an avid, I'm an avid Bridgerton fan, and I'm, I'm so avid I even have my fan beside me when I'm watching it,
but I was with my doctor recently, right, and just for a checkup, and we got talking about Bridgerton, and she was laughing, and she was like saying. Catherine, all the women in perimenopause, menopause, post menopause. They're all watching Bridgerton. She said every woman who comes in to her to talk about menopause, it's like, are you watching Bridgerton?
It's, it's a hot topic over here. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's the same in the UK. Oh yeah, it's, it's very popular. Yeah. Yeah. But so why is it popular here? Well, I think, I think the, the heated scenes, particularly in the last one, there was this major The lust. The lust. Yes, the lust. The lust that maybe we forget we have when we hit perimenopause, but then you watch Bridgerton and you realize, Oh, okay.
That's what it used to be like. Exactly. Maybe there's a, there's a famous carriage scene and there's a famous Shay's lounge scene in the new series. And they're the hotly debated scenes that are talked about, um, here. But, you know, like, you know, all joking aside, it does open up the conversation in relation to libido.
And the fact that, you know, often women kind of think, Okay, well, sure, look, I'm in my 50s, you know, sure, look, close the book on that, end the chapter, you know, let's move on. But you and I, we're not. know that that doesn't have to be the case. Yeah. And I think we can touch on in a minute, you know, about how libido is such a multifactorial aspect of our health.
But one thing I'd love to just get your opinion on is testosterone. Because what I'm seeing here is like, and I'm seeing it in the UK as well, it's, it's hot on social media. It's hot on headlines. It's kind of a hot topic, but I think it's a hot topic where it's kind of like, it's nearly like, well, this is the next, okay, if, if HRT, if oestrogen and progesterone haven't resolved, Your life and your, you know, your symptoms, okay, testosterone, you need testosterone, that's going to cure everything.
And I kind of feel that it isn't that cure all and I am talking to women, it's a mixed bag. Yeah, it's, I mean, I think, I think it's become very clear that it's absolutely that it's a mixed bag. So does it work for everybody? No. It doesn't. Does everybody need it? No, everybody doesn't need it. Should those who feel that they need it be able to have the conversation with a medical health professional?
Yes, they absolutely should. Should it be easier for, I don't know what the situation is there around prescribing, I know you and I have talked about it, I don't know what it is currently, but certainly in the UK. There are several barriers to, for doctors to be able to prescribe it. Um, you know, main one really being the, the lack of education about testosterone in females full stop.
Um, not having a licensed product available on the NHS is a tricky one. And then each of our, sort of each of our health boards has different regulations around it. So I think, is it, is it potentially helpful for some people? There is no doubt that it absolutely is helpful for some people. But I think the difficulty is, is that, as you mentioned before, libido is a very complex subject.
And it's not necessarily one that can be resolved with testosterone. Now for some people, for some people, they find that it does, it does improve things for them, which is great. But again, it's all about, it's all about individualizing and it's all about what else is happening in somebody's life. And there is also this huge kind of, I'm not sure if it's a social pressure or a media pressure that, you know, kind of, we should all be having rampant sex for all of our lives.
And the truth of it is, is that certainly when I speak to women, and I'm guessing it's probably the same for you, Many of them will say, well, actually that's kind of never been my experience. You know, I've never had, I've never had a significant sex drive. And actually within my relationship, okay, it was probably hotter to start with, but actually It's been a long time since, you know, kind of we've been swinging off of chandeliers or whatever it is that people in Bridgerton might be doing.
I don't know, having not seen it. Um, I think it's really interesting when you do start to speak to people about what is happening in their real lives. you know, it's not Bridgerton for most people. Um, it's, it's more about the connection that they have within their relationship. And yeah, you know, kind of is intimacy important.
Yes, of course, intimacy is important, but intimacy doesn't necessarily mean penis in vagina sex. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily mean intercourse. It can mean a million and one other things. And there are all kinds of pressures. that mean that those million and one other things might not happen. So I think it's You know, testosterone, yes.
Should it be, should it be an option for those where it can be useful? It absolutely should. Is it the answer to all of our issues? No, it's absolutely not. I know I was reading a study recently, um, Di, it was over, I think eight and a half thousand women, um, had been studied over a period of time, and they looked at the cohort that were using testosterone therapy, and they found that using testosterone, there was only a 0.
85 percent increase in sexual events. compared to the people who weren't using testosterone. And I think that's very important because I would talk to a lot of women here and they will expect like that, that they'll start testosterone and they'll nearly envisage that, Oh, now I'll be like I was maybe in my twenties and thirties.
Um, and that's not the reality you're looking at, that it might be that it might be one extra sexual occurrence a month or something. But I think a lot of people are now That, Oh my God, I'm going to, you know, totally have a renewed sex life. And I think what you were saying is so important because as we get older is too, and as your relationship changes, you can have maybe more solace in sitting beside someone.
You can maybe have more solace for someone giving you a hug or putting their arm around you. Like there's, as you said, there's. so much more to it. And I guess I just kind of, I just really feel it's nearly now, now like testosterone is being put out there as, okay, well this is going to sort it, you know, if, if, if X, Y or Z hasn't.
And then you talk to the women who tried testosterone. And no impact and they're kind of like, okay, well that did nothing. Yeah. And I think, I think that's really interesting in terms of the guidance as well. So certainly kind of the British Menopause Society guidance here is, you know, if the, if the individual and the clinician feel that it's useful to try, then certainly a trial for six months.
But if after six months, you know, nothing's happening, and they're not feeling any benefit from it, then what's the point of continuing? And I think where we are certainly in terms of research at the moment on the benefits of testosterone, and we all know that there's a whole other conversation going on around what they could potentially be.
I think for clinicians, that's really where they are at the moment is okay. So This is the current guidance, but I think we also have to think about so particularly for those females who are in relationships with males, we have to think about things like are those males experiencing, you know, kind of physical issues with things like erectile dysfunction.
Is that a conversation that those couples are able to have? Um, and as I say, you know, kind of regardless of what the physical issues are, it doesn't mean that intimacy can't be maintained, but intimacy. in its broadest sense can only be maintained if we keep the lines of conversation open. And typically, and I know you and I have spoken about you know, how difficult some people find it to talk about, you know, kind of their, their sexual lives, generally.
And I know that you have said that, you know, kind of you feel that in Ireland, that's even more difficult for people, um, even with their own partners or their own doctors. So I think it's so much wider and we also have to think about the kind of pressures that people are under. Is it financial pressure?
Is it family pressure? Are you looking after elderly relatives? Have you got your own health concerns? You know, wider worldwide issues that I know have affected people hugely in the last few years. Um, so I think, yeah, I think for me, libido is such, it's such a massive subject. And if I was gonna, if I was gonna say to people, kind of point people in the right direction for something to read that might make them think, Oh, do you know what, actually, I'm really quite normal, but you know, kind of I'm not swinging off the chandeliers.
And, you know, All kinds of other things, as you say, that happen in Bridgerton, and now I'm thinking should I go and watch it? Um, but there's, there's three books that I would highly recommend. Um, one is called Come As You Are. That's an excellent one, yeah. Which is by Emilina Gossi. She's recently released another book called Come Together, which is very much about relationships.
That's another good one. And then the other one that I really like is a book called Mind the Gap by Dr. Karen Gurney. Um, so, Their three books, I mean, obviously don't buy all of them. Yeah, one at a time. One at a time, yeah. But their three books that I think are, they really kind of look at what the, you know, sort of, so from people who work with individuals who feel that they're struggling with their libido, or with their relationship, or with their kind of sexual life, These, these are written by people who deal with those individuals all the time.
And they're saying, do you know what, actually, what you've heard on social media, or what you've seen on Bridgerton, or any of the other, you know, kind of, basically the movie representation of, of a, of a sexual relationship, or your sexual desire. Actually, for most people, it's not remotely real. It doesn't take into account who's cooking the dinner, who's, who's collecting the kids, you know, all of the juggling that you're doing the sandwich years as you're, as you're right.
Exactly. Yeah. I think come as you come as you are, is, is excellent. It's a, it's a good, it's a really good start. Yeah. Yeah. And just, we're talking about like, I know testosterone, it's, you know, it's a hotly debated. Hotly debated. But. But. In the same vein, um, because now what I'm seeing, and I've seen quite a few kind of posts and stuff on it.
What about, uh, oestrogen face cream? Is that, um, are you seeing that? Because again, like, I look at that and I see these kind of broad sweeping media headlines, you know, oestrogen face cream, kind of boost your collagen, things like that. But to my knowledge, Di, there is no clinical studies around the use of oestrogen cream.
Like, so say if you're using your topical oestrogen cream on your face, there's no studies to say what impact that could have. And one of the biggest concerns I would have around that is Who knows what's the impact in relation to skin cancer, what's the impact in relation to SPF protection. Say for example, if you're using, there's certain serums you're, you use and you know that the next day you have to make sure you've SPF protection, but like there's none of that known around the use of oestrogen cream.
So again, I, it's another area that I think is going to be a worry because it could just take off. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so it's definitely something that I've only heard it a handful of times, but it's definitely something that I've heard that people have spoken about. And as you say, it's about using their topical estrogen creams on their face.
And again, you know, kind of my response to that would be exactly what you've just said. We have absolutely no research in those terms. So, you know, kind of, please don't go self medicating. Um, because yeah, it's, we have no idea what the potential pros and cons could be. A hundred percent. And the last thing you want is like, you know, someone's got the crow's lines or you know, the, the, the, the natural lines that we are all getting from aging.
The last thing you want start doing is playing around with that when you don't know. Um, and I think that kind of, I think that speaks to something much wider that I know we haven't got time to talk about, which is this idea of. And the fact that actually, We need to move away from this idea of, and I know it's huge in the, um, you know, sort of what I would call the beauty industry, this idea of anti aging.
Actually, we should be really pro aging because we should be saying, look, isn't it amazing that we are where we are and this is what we look like? And, you know, kind of, we should be really proud of that. And remembering that, you know, it's a huge privilege to be able to age. Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh, I think it's kind of like, I don't know the way I look at it now, particularly when you're, when I'm up the mountains and you have time to kink when you're walking and stuff, I always think, you know, I get to walk, I get.
To go up the mountains. And I find for me, I find that a real, it's a real change in how you're thinking about things. Because as you said, there's so many people who don't get to still be here, you know, and I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it is a massive topic when we look at aging. I think it's great that, you know, we see more celebrities, you know, embracing it and coming out and, uh, you know, openly talking about it, which is brilliant.
But I think at the same time, I think we should be very careful that aging doesn't become where you have to, you know, be doing interventions with your body, with your face. Things like that, you know, I, I think it's natural, um, aging. Yeah, absolutely lovely. I'm a, um, and I, I could be wrong, but, um, I really, uh, love the message that Julia Roberts is kind of portraying at the moment.
Now I could have this wrong. Maybe she's had work done, but to me, when you see her on screen or you see her on social media, it doesn't look like that. And I just think, um, I just love the way. She is about aging and, you know, I, I think that's where we all need to get it. It's that we're comfortable. We're comfortable aging and that we're, and that all ties in with body image and body image.
Of course, you're going to go back to libido and relationships when you talk about body image, but it all ties into that, doesn't it? Because our body isn't going to be the same at 50 or 60 as it was when we were 20. And it's just being comfortable with that, right? I think it's all about pushing back on that.
You know, kind of that narrative that's been allowed to pervade historically, you know, kind of that we should all be particularly for females should be striving to look a certain way or be a certain way. And it's like, no, this is how I am. I'm happy with this. If the rest of you don't like it. Hey, that's how it is.
Yeah, and I think that's a real. I think that's a huge benefit of menopause is just to be able to go, Oh, you don't like it. Oh, well, jog on. I love that. And it is, it is that, isn't it? It's like, we're not everybody's cup of tea. We just not. And you shouldn't be. Yeah. The world would be very boring if we were, but I think, Oh, can you imagine?
But, but I think what's lovely about menopause. Cause it's the fact that just like that jog on, it's like, okay, if I'm just not your cup of tea, or I think that's fine. If you're not, um, a positive influence in my life, jog on, keep saying that jog on.
I guess that, that does bring me to another, um, aspect I, I would like to talk to you about, and probably one of my favourite paragraphs in your book, which I'll put in the show notes, Making Menopause Matter, which is just fantastic, and huge congrats on, on, uh, its success so far, but thank you, my love. I know I've said this to you before, but one of my favourite lines was where you talked very honestly about relationships and, um, you talked about, I can't, I'm sorry now, I, I, the book is in the office so I don't have it in front of me, but, um, you had talked I've got it, let me see if I can find it was where you talked about your relationship and you were basically saying how you didn't use the words, always happy.
Because you felt that let's be realistic, you know, this isn't a Cinderella world, you know, relationships will have their ups and downs. And I just found, I just found, I know that it resonated with me. I know it will resonate with thousands of people because relationships are a roller coaster. Uh, and there is no, it's not like it is the Hollywood movies we talked about earlier.
There's always going to be something. And menopause, menopause is a big something. Yeah, I think, I think it was, I think it was probably the bit about, um, having, that I felt that I was very fortunate to be in a mainly happy and supportive relationship. And that I felt that, you know, kind of to, to speak otherwise wouldn't be real.
And I don't think it helps with the perpetuation of the idea that, you know, kind of relationships are perfect, because. I, I challenge anybody to say that it's perfect because you've got two independent thinkers sharing the same space a lot of the time. You, you know, you're never going to see eye to eye on everything all the time, as much as you care for each other.
So, yeah. I do think it's really important. And again, I think it's, I think what was really important for me in the book was to speak very honestly, um, about whether it was my experience with surgical menopause or with endometriosis and adenomyosis or, you know, my experience within my relationship, et cetera.
It was really important for me to do that because I do think this idea Um, can be perpetuated that, you know, there is this kind of this fairy dust kind of sprinkled on relationships. And actually, the truth is, it's bloody hard work. Like relationships are work and they should be. Yeah. Because you should be, we should be looking to, you know, kind of how can we, how can we do this better together, whatever it might be, how can we, because, you know, If you do have differences, and you are going to.
Oh God, no, never. Oh God, no, never. Um, it's about how can you work through them, isn't it? Yeah. That's, you know, kind of how can you resolve them? What can you do? It's, uh, you know, a little bit of give and take, whatever that might look like. Um, and I think when it comes to perimenopause, menopause, surgical menopause, premature menopause, you know, all of those things can bring their challenges.
And it is very much about looking at, I mean, we also have to remember before that comes along, you know, kind of how did you and your relationship arrive at menopause? So, if you and your relationship arrived at menopause depleted in some way, or if things weren't as good as you would like them to have been, well, I can guarantee you that menopause in any way, shape or form is going to shine a big old light on that.
Um, because, you know, kind of, I, as I say, mainly, mainly happy and supportive, but there There were times when I was vile and not because I had set out to be vile, but, and it's really unlike me, you know, kind of to say something and think, Oh, I wish I hadn't said that. But there were times when it came out and I didn't even feel like that.
Yeah. I was just, and it was so, it's so out of character for me. And I'm really fortunate that I live with somebody who's quite laid back and was, you know, was learning all about menopause, surgical menopause with me. Um, so understood that this was something that I was having to work through. Yeah. Um, but you know, I won't pretend for a moment that it was all easy, but it did make us stronger.
working through it together. Yeah. And funnily enough, because of the work that he did, he worked mainly with, with females. So Martin used to work with horses and he worked a lot with females who owned horses and because they knew about what I'd gone through, He actually found himself becoming a little unofficial menopause agony on.
Poor Martin. And it was, it was not unusual for him to come home and he used to wear overalls for his work and he used to come home and he'd say, see this bit here? Like this has had a big old wet patch on it today where somebody is literally cried on his shoulder. So, and I was like, Oh, I'm so proud of you allowing them to do that.
So yeah, he never set out to become an unofficial menopause agony aunt or uncle, but he definitely did. Can you, can you like, I was driving home. I don't know where I was one of the evenings last week and I was driving up this long road and there was this woman walking, on the road and she was crying. And I could just see her walking and the tears were just flowing and oh my god my heart and I, I thought oh god would I turn around the car and would I go back and but then I thought no because I've been there I've been I, you know, wherever we've been upset and I know for me I have to just be upset and You know, uh, work through it or, you know, have my time or, you know, talk to Tom or whatever.
Um, but I, you know, I just, I, I just looked and I just thought, oh gosh, she was definitely of, um, definitely of menopause age range. And I just kind of thought, you know, they're the really hard moments where you feel so alone. Now I have no idea what was happening or, you know, who knows. Yeah. But, you know, that's the kind of, that's the kind of representation, isn't it?
Yeah. And I, I think you're familiar with, and I think it's like so many times women would say to me, like, they just feel lost and they just feel alone. And I just think, um, and I definitely remember in the early perimenopause days, I definitely remember feeling like, what the feck is going on here and feeling very kind of, Lost is the words I would use, and I think, um, so when you see somebody else kind of trying to muddle their way through that.
Yeah. I think it's like, oh gosh, I, I know that's hard. I know that's like, and sometimes it is like that. It's having that someone to talk to, it's having that shoulder to cry on is, is so important, isn't it? I think the other tricky thing with relationships is that when we think about it for the vast majority of us who are going to go through it ourselves in whichever way, shape or form, um, we come at it uninformed.
So we haven't got any, you know, we haven't got any information. Um, so you can bet that those around us, our partners, children, people that you share your lives with, they don't have that information either. Of course. Yeah. And so, you know, you've got this huge. abyss where the information should be. And it doesn't matter whether you're a partner, a friend, a family member, a colleague, an employer, you can't support what you don't understand.
Yeah, 100%, 100%. And that's what makes the education piece so vital for everybody, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. Do you think, um, do you think things are improving in the UK in relation to the education piece? Slowly, slowly but surely, I think they are. My concern is that the education piece won't be across the board.
Okay. So I think, you know, kind of, I think we're better at having good factual evidence based information for those who come and look for it. Yeah. I think that there is, there's definitely more going on in the workplace. There's definitely more going on in terms of, you know, menopause and social media, but that's a whole old snake pit of its own.
And, but my worry is, and what I think needs to happen, and I think everywhere around the world, but particularly in the UK and Ireland, because we have kind of led this, you know, this menopause march, um, I think we do need a a public health campaign for menopause, which is something that would be funded by, you know, whichever government happens to be around, um, in the same way as we've had public health campaigns to encourage people to stop smoking or to run their 5k or whatever it might be.
Because I think it's only then that That you, you kind of scoop up everybody so that all of the partners and all of the friends and family will at least have a basic understanding. And it could be something really simple. Um, so I think we're definitely moving in the right direction. But in terms of, as I say, you can't support what you don't understand.
And we've said it a million times, Catherine, you know, when we think that 51 percent of the world's population are going to experience it, and 49 percent are going to know somebody who experiences it, It is something that we all need some basic understanding of. Yeah. And I, a hundred percent, like if you look at, we did, the government did an awareness, national awareness campaign here, uh, probably what, 18 months ago.
But listen, It wasn't long enough. It wasn't, uh, detailed enough, you know, um, it needed to be, it needs to be like, we've got a very good, uh, anti smoking campaign, you know, and that's, and that's there the whole time. It's ongoing. It's rolling. And this, this needs to be the same. I mean, to me now, that's a tick box that it was on bus shelters.
It was on the TV, things like that. But the longevity wasn't there. Oh, you all did a great job there, honey, making that happen. But it does need to be, it does need to be ongoing. It does, big time, big time. You know, it's a bit like having a menopause policy, isn't it? You can't have a policy and then stick it in the cupboard.
You have to do the work around it. Oh, 100 percent. Yeah. And then, and then of course, for me, um, is that whole piece of making it equitable. So like, you know, not everyone is going to be in a workplace that actually is going to openly start supporting the menopause conversation. So then you have all of those women who are marginalized on the periphery of society.
That it's like, if you're not approaching it equitably and across all kinds of language barriers, all of that kind of stuff, then you're, you're not. It's, you're not holistic as a, as a country. And I think we, we like, I've done a huge amount of work in the Southeast with the traveling community. I'm doing more now coming up in the next while, but that needs to be across all communities.
Uh, you know, so I think that's a, that's a big space that, um, you know, we have to kind of tackle. But I guess, look, Yeah. It is about going in the right direction and I think at the same time it's kind of, um, I don't know, you're very conscious of keeping the whole conversation grounded at the same time.
And, and you know, it's kind of like, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's, there's so many people now come, you know, talking about menopause on different angles. Yeah. And you can, there's different reasons for that and I just think it's just keeping grounded in the reasons for me, I think. Hence the chapter in the book, Catherine, called Don't Believe the Hype.
Don't Believe the Hype, that was it. That's a great chapter. I was chuckling when I read, uh, when I read that chapter. But, um, yeah, and I think, look, I think, sorry, going back, we're totally diverging there. I'm going off another tangent. But going back to your book, it's amazing, um, thank you. I think, you know, I think it's really important that, um, it's, it's, it's, it's nice to have the go to book that, you know, okay, look, listen, I can go here.
I'm in safe hands and the information I get is, um, It's grounded. It's practical. It's clarity. And I think your book is all of that. And I think particularly that chapter that you mentioned, don't believe the hype. Um, you know, that's so important now because we're living in a very digital world where, uh, you know, kind of often we can believe what a celebrity says as opposed to the scientific clinical, uh, Journals that are there that maybe we don't want to believe.
And, and that's, that's, it can be powerful in messaging, but it can also be dangerous. And I think the messaging is a really important point, Catherine, because, you know, the menopause space has become increasingly commercialized, commodified, competitive, sometimes combative. Um, and I think as far as, you know, sort of the messaging is concerned, just because it's glossy, just because it's a face you recognize, doesn't mean that this product or service is going to do anything magical.
You know, we have to remember that it's that marketers have recognized the power of, you know, kind of the, the spending power of those experiencing menopause. Yeah. And so consequently, you know, we see products coming out all of the time. Um, and you know, glossy marketing does not mean that that product or service for that matter, there are menopause services springing up like weeds.
Um, you know, I always say to people, how you spend your money is your choice, but please do your homework. Look into the product, look into the person that is professing to be able to offer you this service. Do they have the, do they have the knowledge and the experience? you know, to be able to support you because you're paying them good money.
Yeah. To be able to do that. And I've, I've certainly seen and heard some, some scary examples of where it hasn't gone well. And I know you have too. Big time, big time. And I think, look, if you look at it, like, I mean, if we take the example of um, the Holland and Barrett menopause chocolate. I mean, stop it.
But that's, that's like, that's so wrong, you know? And I think that's where, like, I'm forever going on to people like, you know, there are, like, I'm not saying, you know, You know, there are some good products out there. I'll be honest, I would say few and far between because I think it's really important. You have to read your ingredients and you have to look beyond the marketing.
Um, I mean, seriously, whoever thought it was a wise step to bring out a menopause bar of chocolate. I mean, I mean, That, that baffles me, but, you just can't imagine, can you lovely? But we're gonna see more. There's, there, you know, other things, other things will come out. Um, you know, I'm, I'm sure at some point the greedy genie is out of the bottle.
There'll be menopause sensitive washing powder or something, you know. Oh my God, absolutely. You know, if there's, if there's something you can, if there's something that they can market or advertise. Yeah. Um. Yeah, you know, kind of, as I say, it's, it's become a sadly, yeah, it's become a very commercialized and commodified space.
Um, fortunately, there are still lots of good people doing the right thing for the right reasons. Yeah, who do have the experience to be able to support people. But it's, it is really important to do your homework now. More important than ever, I think, in this space. And if you go on to Google and you, you Google an oestrogen face cream, please don't use it.
I'm telling you it's going to, it's, it's coming. There's somewhere, somewhere, there's someone now working on a tube of oestrogen face cream or something. So, oh yeah, please just do the homework. It's so important. Read, read Diane's chapter. Don't. Don't believe the hype.
Um, so listen, Diane, thanks so much, uh, for chatting as always. My pleasure as always, my love. We always cover loads. I will put, um, the links to Diane's book in, uh, you can get it on Amazon. I put the links in the show notes and I would definitely say to you, you know, do pick up a copy of it because it is a fantastic read.
Um, it's so practical. It's. It's just so dip in, dip out, um, it's just very accessible, um, and easy to read. So Diane, thanks a million and lovely to see the little, uh, your four legged friends there as well popping up on screen. Thanks lovely, lovely to chat to you again.
